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Did they reveal what the significance was of Lisbeth's Dragon Tattoo? and who or where is Lisbeth's twin sister?
Posted by sandiandfrances i denman island, bc , 18 September 2010
I don't think so. I bet the "sister" would have been developed in subsequent novels which, sadly, Stig Larsson was never to write
Posted by PatMillenniumObsessed in Los Angeles, CA , 18 September 2010
Every tattoo is a reminder of some point in her life. Like the chain around her ankle for instance. I cannpt remember if they did more than mention the dragon.
Posted by FlickaChapman in SAn Rafael, CA , 18 September 2010
And of course there will be a third book now.
Posted by FlickaChapman in SAn Rafael, CA , 18 September 2010
FlickaChapman, there is already a third book and, sadly, Larsson passed away. So they have to hire a compleately different person if they whant a FOURTH book to come out.
Posted by Thai in Shanghai/Perugia , 19 September 2010
there are 200 pages of the fourth book...there're in Larsson's Laptop that Assagabrielsson has as a common possesion, ask her for that pages, snif!!!
Posted by maria in colombia , 19 September 2010
she "breathed fire" on her dad? so maybe its that significance, in the books the fire issue was a repeated theme so its obviously important in her character and since she was the fire-giver, probably safe to say a dragon might be an appropriate tattoo for THE defining moment in her life?
Posted by sal in london , 20 September 2010
I'm still thinking that there was a reference somewhere in the book to the significance of the tattoo. A friend is reading it now so I've told him to watch out for it. I see where you're going with that Sal in London, but I still seem to remember that it was in the book, not just speculated on. Or maybe I just read it on this forum and my old mind is confused!
Posted by sandiandfrances in denman island bc , 22 September 2010
I just finished the third book - read all 3 in two weeks! AMAZING details and he made you think you were right there in the investigation...I am a bit depressed that the saga will not continue. I don't remember any explanation about the dragon tattoo - I didn't connect the innuendo of "fire breathing" on her dad / etc. Nice point. I also wondered why the sister never surfaced.....
In my mind as I read I easily placed Daniel Craig for Blomkvist and for Lizbeth I imagined Pauley Perrette from NCIS...I know she's a little tall and older but what a perfect character match (to me anyway).
I hope your right about the 4 book in his laptap archives....I WANT ANOTHER BOOK!!!!
Posted by JoJo in Birmingham , 23 September 2010
Don't bother with the American versions of the films they will, no doubt, be overloaded with "special effects" and the likes. Watch the original Swedish versions, they focus on the STORY and not the over-promoted, so called, stars or the film industry in general.
Posted by Paul in Devon , 24 September 2010
The actual significance of the dragon has never been explained but I like the explanation linking it to the car fire. Who else out there knew all along that Zala was her father? I had it figured out almost from the beginning of book 2...
Posted by Kat in Decatur, AL , 27 September 2010
what is the significance or "the Hoenet's nest"eferring to the third book? I read all three but I'm not sire what is the connection. anyone?
Posted by m in miami , 28 September 2010
I agree, the Swedish films are the ones to watch. I've not ever seen an American movie as yet, that has held true to a book. Characters are lost completely wrong choices for actors, directors change actual story. On my favorite book list, sorry to not have a fourth or more....great writer.
Posted by R. Jamieson in Salem, OR , 1 October 2010
In English kicking the hornets nest can be likened to upsetting the apple cart, in other words creating mayhem through revelations that will cause a huge stir!
Posted by sue fraser in chippenham wiltshire , 5 October 2010
The hornet's nest was The Section in Sapo - Salader kept surfacing and they would come out to attack her and try to get rid of her (they are the hornets). Also, I believe that she is the dragon and got herself that tattoo after the fire incident with Zala.
Posted by CMM in MI , 5 October 2010
I agree the Swedish version is very authentic and Lisbeth was cast perfectly.
Posted by Micke in Salinas , 16 October 2010
What are we missing in her past? The years between 18 and 25. We know she was arrested twice for being obscenely drunk and she was seen spending time with much older men. This was never explained. Why did she keep running away from foster homes? Some kind of abuse?
Thus, I'm guessing the dragon tattoo has to do with something that happened in this time frame. Also, Bjurman mentioned in the 1st book that she had "experience" with "this" (i.e. sexual assault) in the past, right before he forced her in his office. Perhaps it was part of a cover-up? Her tattoo on her right arm matches the band she got on her leg, so maybe it was in commemoration of getting revenge on the person responsible for the arm tattoo assault. The dragon might also represent her fight and splitting up with Camilla.
Posted by Liz_Beth in Colorado , 21 October 2010
Stieg larsson books made me crazy, how i wish there will be another book of him. what happedned to Camilla, and how Lisbeth got a tattoes,and why Lisbeth had a forensic test on the weapon.used to murder Dag, and Mia.anyway its amazing triology!
Posted by Juvy 34 in Philippines , 3 November 2010
The tattoo might have something to do with the fact that Salander was protecting her mother just as dragons do. Or maybe it points out to her reclusive side.
Posted by Snig in Delhi , 7 November 2010
I don't recall any light being shed on the significance of the dragon tattoo. We don't know if any explanation would have been forthcoming in subsequent books. So we are left to speculate and project a number of metaphors that connect to Lisbeth's character and resolve.
Imagine having something as menacing as a dragon on your back constantly, it's barbed tail penetrating your body and emerging to spread down your thigh. Imagine the time and pain to submit to having this frightful thing embossed on your body. Powerful stuff. She will only attest to Dr. Jonasson that, yea, it took a long time and it hurt.
Is the dragon "the evil"? The experiences would be with her always, and by cloaking herself with this image, she wasn't recoiling from them. It was, somewhat literally, her backbone. When the evil threatened her again, she battled it fiercely.
Posted by Nansi in USA , 7 November 2010
I read - and loved - the first two books quite a while ago. What I remember about the sister is that my thought was that it was a possibility that Liz is schizophrenic and has two personalities. Any comments?
Posted by Glenna in Flagstaff , 12 November 2010
Lisbeth is not schizophrenic, although her sister never features in the trilogy. Camilla opted to live a life seperate from Lisbeth.
Posted by Peanut in Cape Town , 17 November 2010
The dragon tattoo, think about it. In the novel, if I remember correctly, it was on her left shoulder blade. A Dragon breathes fire, fire saved her from the abuse of her father towards her mother, or so she had hoped. I think the Dragon tattoo is to proclaim, I will never let it happen again! To me, or any injustice to women.
Posted by Inthemix in Key West, USA , 19 November 2010
Just finished the trilogy and couldn't put them down! They were fantastic! Apparently the aim was to write 10! I so wish the family would sort out the differences. There is so much more to these characters lives.
Anyway is it just me or did anyone else want Lisbeth and Mikael to get together?? There was a glimmer of hope in the last sentence (I dont like Figuerola for this reason)
Posted by Kayrn in UK , 24 November 2010
greetings from Chile... in southamerica.
I just watched the 3 movies.... awsome!!!
The tatoo.... beautyful.
Posted by alf in Santiago , 30 November 2010
Perhaps you are reading too much into it. Maybe the explanation is simple. Ever heard the expression "Dragon Lady?" Any high ranking female out in corporate America is familiar with the name. Dragon Lady was once associated only with Asian women but the name was actually coined by westerners. In today's world "Dragon Lady" is what they call women who are beautiful, intelligent, powerful and equal to their male counterparts. In other words . . . . a threat.
Posted by Recia in Seattle, Wa , 1 December 2010
Maybe the dragon was a symbol for her protection.
Be nice to have a dragon watching your back
Posted by Ina in Morro Bay , 3 December 2010
Please God do not allow Americans to make movies of these great books with over the top American actors and turning the books into kitch, cliched shadows of their former selves. Stieg would most likely turn in his grave.
Posted by Jed in Qld, Australia , 7 December 2010
American movies are already being filmed, with daniel craig as blomkvist. he is too polished and good looking for blomkvist. swedish movies the best and most authentic. :)
Posted by F , 14 December 2010
her sister's name is Camilla. more info in the second book
Posted by Eliza Roan in Liberty, Nebraska , 21 December 2010
First, I agree about the trepidation voiced regarding the American version of the movie. Hollywood's tendency for being "over the top" is well known. Additionally, I fear script writers will change the story to the point where any resemblance to the original may be lost. However, I hold out hope that the new director is cognisant of the concerns and produce a good product.
Now for my theory on the dragon tatto. We all know Lisbeth beyond her extraordinary skills, is also graced with high intellect. Thus it is not a stretch to posit that the dragon represents for her what it does in much of literature: that is the tatoo symbolizes a dragon that she has yet to slay- a demon within her mind. Given that Larson had outlined ten books, there would have been opportunity to flesh out this part of Lisbeth's psyche'. Alas, we may never find out due to his untimely death.
Posted by RQ in San Francisco , 2 January 2011
What cheesed me off about the movies was the way her tattoos were portrayed. The Dragon covered more than half her back! No Way. In the book it says the Dragon was on her shoulder blade, which is about the size of a large hand. They also show her with her mother looking at the tattoos on her inner arms. Again no way. She had the dragon, a narrow band around her left arm, an ankle band and a Chinese character on one hip. She later gets another narrow band around another ankle. As usual, the movies tend to exaggeration is way over done.
I shudder to think what the Americans will do with the tattoos.
Posted by Tiny in Vancouver , 8 January 2011
The meaning of a dragon as a tattoo varies.... it actually depends on what time of dragon. For example medieval dragons vs. japanese dragons. Larsson never tells us what type of dragon Lisbeth has. Perhaps he would have divulged more in later books.
The most obvious answer would be dragons tend to symbolize strength, power, protectors, defenders, etc...
I am a tattooer myself and can tell you countless people just get things such as dragons because they think they look cool and could care less about any sort of meaning.... or they can have what it means to them.
i saw the films before i read the books and was shocked at how different the dragon tattoo was from the book to movie..... but i liked they made it into a backpiece. Lisbeth is a bad ass.... the dragon as a back piece is fitting in my opinion.
Posted by jeska in nyc , 11 January 2011
I thought the sister could turn out to be Figuerola!
Posted by sam in bury st edmund , 13 January 2011
anybody who is not in US, plez listen. hollywood is deffinitely known for overdoing alot of things. i agree. but do not discriminate us becuz not even a quarter of us are even remotely close to hollywood. but keep in mind, other countries raised america to what it is 2day.
Posted by Eliza in Liberty, NA , 20 January 2011
last reply is especialy 2 the austrailia kid.
Posted by E in NA , 20 January 2011
Had Larsson lived, I bet their would have been a 4th book which would focus more on the mystery of her long lost sister. No way that Figurola could have been her twin sister! They were the complete opposites as far as appearance goes, plus Monica was way older, by at least 10 years.
Posted by , 22 January 2011
I am still curious as to why the twin sister never materialized as a character. True the series is entitled Millenium therefore about the magazine protagonist and his relationship to Lisbeth, but other peripheral characters emerged and disappeared. It's also curious that the twin didn't seem to visit their mother (remember in the first book the mother calls out Camille when it's Lisbeth who's visiting her? did Camille ever visit the mother? and in the 3rd book wouldn't she have been contacted to receive her share of Zala's estate?) I never thought I would obsess about a series and am really saddened that Larsson is no longer with us. I admire his work against anti-racist and Nazism. He sounded like a passionate, principled person. (Is he Blomkvist?)
Posted by ammb in Washington, D.C. , 26 January 2011
I have just read the first book, and started on the second one. I believe that there is no special meening about the dragon. It is not mentioned at all in the book.
We are probably paying much attention to the dragon tattoo because of the title. However, do not forget that the original title in Swedish for the book is "Men who hated women" Nothing to do with tattoos or dragons at all
Posted by exfat in Madrid , 30 January 2011
If Stieg Larsson is Blomkvist it's no wonder he died young but he was a brilliant writer
Posted by Buck in Montgomery , 30 January 2011
Saw the movies first and then read the books. Actually just received the 3rd from the library yesterday. Yes the Swedish Films are brilliant, but if the Hollywood script could pull in the humor from the books we would see Lisbeth's genus shine. She is a F!@#ing Diamond in the rough!
Posted by TJ in Centre Hall , 1 February 2011
maybe the dragon symbolizes her lack of emotion and messed up childhood and as a result mentally she became "less human" and the dragon represents the 'beast' she's become mentally, works better for the movie though as its a much larger tattoo
Posted by s marriott in Hamilton , 3 February 2011
I dread to think what America will do with this, no matter what, the european version will always be the original, and i guess the best and most accurate in relation to a correct view of how the book was written, the Swedish team that produced these films, did a fantastic job, and kept the movies very close to the actual thread of the books, the characters in the films,and books, will always be the Swedish ones, not any others. please leave it alone, for once and just accept it for what it is.
Posted by James Gordon in Scotland , 7 February 2011
I read the books first and then saw the first two Swedish movies, and while I thought the actors were exceptional, esp Noomi, I can't say I thought they were great adaptations.
As usual, it's because they're trying to turn something like sixteen solid hours of reading into two hours of watching. You lose all of the interior monologues, all of the authorial input, and much of the action. When you have to cut necessary connecting scenes, you end up having to scramble to catch up with the plot. Example: because they cut out Magge Lundin's attempted kidnap of Lisbet in the second film, Blomkvist didn't have her apartment keys. But of course he had to get them somehow, so he could get access to it and figure out where she'd gone. So Lisbet has to visit Mimmi in hospital and drop her keys. And then Blomkvist has to visit Mimmi in hospital, and find them. Know what I mean? It doesn't strengthen the narrative to have to perform all these clumsy contortions. Why not just show the kidnap attempt in the first place? It would probably be shorter than writing in two new scenes.
I too worry about what kind of mess Hollywood will make of these great books. But I don't really think the Swedish movies are that great. Books this complex need to be properly adapted for the screen, and if that takes gobs of time, then so it is.
Posted by Harry Teleborian in Brit in Canada , 9 February 2011
Teleborian? really? your name is Teleborian? How cool.
Posted by John S. in Minneapolis , 15 February 2011
I was told a few years ago that these books would be a waste of my time to read, I am going to kill who ever told me this because I haven't been able to put them down!
They are some of the best books Ive ever read, and the movies are great too! I saw the movies first and ABSOLUTELY fell in love with Lisbeth. Noomi Rapace did an excellent job. She looked the part, and was deep in her role. After watching all three movies I got a hold of the books. Lisbeth is such an amazing character to follow. Her story is just so .... i cant even put it into words.
I am sad to admit I cant wait for the American versions because I need to see more of Lisbeth. I was incredibly disappointed to hear that the director was changing the ending, but i am open to seeing how it goes. But of course the Swedish version will always be the true version to me.
As for her sister...
Im truly saddened by the fact we may never know her story. Larsson left much to soon, and the tease that there would have been even more amazing books,but we will never know, is just so heart breaking. I am thirsty for so much more!
I really like the idea that the dragon is used to symbolize her strength and her endurance through all the hard times. Its a reminder of the hardships she went through. The pain of getting the tattoo could also symbolize the pain behind its story.
I love how protective Lisbeth is, and how strong and independent. I absolutely refuse to believe that she simply got the tattoo because she thought it would look cool. Every one of Lisbeth's tattoos have meaning. the chains around her ankle and arm. The wasp on her neck (which she did have removed), and even the tattoo she put on bjurman, to Lisbeth a tattoo has meaning. I love the fact that the dragon was full sized in the movie. It just made her seem a little more bad ass and it seemed to make her stand out more. The clips of her back, when she is moving and all you see is the dragon in the dead of night, its almost as if to symbolize the fact that this dragon is always with her. good times and bad. Her past is always there, and she needs to live with it, she takes her pain and her victimization and turns it into power.
I thought the Noomi Rapace Lisbeth was dead on. I love these books :)
Posted by Alex D. in San Francisco, CA , 12 Mars 2011
Noomie Rapace did Stieg proud. You go girl! The fire breathing dragon lady? Clearly Lisbeth has been
forged in fire. Chains were used to warp the natural purpose of her beauty, like a tiger in the zoo. What happened became a freak of nature like her brother Niederman, determined, incapable betrayal or pain.
I'm goin' with the Swedish films tattoo over Steig's. Blaspemy! Yeah whatever, it rocks and that an American for you. There have and will be American films that defy any small minded twirps out there that only see what they want for their limp excuses of identity. Not to make something because you think it will different or, God forbid, better. Larrson would role in his grave if he thought someone would limit his creation. I want Camila, I want to know the charity Lisbeth makes of her fathers estate and if she monitors the bad seed like she did Bjourn.
Will Camilla be the bad seed? Steig talk to me. She should decide too. I don't know Swedish law but it seems that knowing Neiderman was as much Zala's child as Lisbeth, how he wasn't given part if not all of his estate unless Zala willed it to her. Doubt it though since his las free moments were spent burying his daughter.
Fun to think about.
I loved the Swedish films and hope someone like Robert Altman would do the job if he was still alive.
The Cohem brothers could bring the comedy out to polish the diamond of Lisbeth that cuts glass.
Posted by Colm Heneghan in Park Ridge , 15 May 2011
I've only seen the Movie's. I think Miche does have many of the charateristic of Stieg, his fight for the oppressed, wanting to expose those who divert justice to protect the underdog.
All Lisbeths tatoos will have a meaning, that was her nature right from a young child. She did things for a reason and was very calculated about. Setting her father on fire, filming her rapist, her autobiography was very discriptive. Waiting and watching for the bikey gang to finish off her half brother. He recall memory was exceptional. Only time you ever see any emotion of joy is when punishment is dished out. Even sex only brings relief, not passion. She reminds me more of a cornered wild cat then a dragon.
Posted by Debra in New Zealand , 20 June 2011
JoJo in Birmingham, I swear we have the same mind, except that I imagined Rooney Mara as Lisbeth- she fit PERFECTLY. It's hard seeing Noomi Rapace playing her.
Anyway, I too am depressed about the series not continuing, and I too read all three in two weeks.
Hopefully the first 200 pages of "God's Revenge" are leaked if they're not going to be released. It'd only be fitting.
Posted by WaspNest in New Lands , 20 August 2011
I haven't gotten to read every post on here but I would like to post my observation. I apologize if it has already been stated.
I believe that Stieg never actually got to the point of discussing what her tattoos actually meant but that he was planning on doing it in future books.
Items that needed to be entertained and finalized...
1. Math problem, fully explained.
2. Sister - Lisbeth shivers in the court room when her sister is mentioned, which foreshadows an encounter with her sister at some point in time, either in her future or past.
a. This also leads to - since both Lisbeth and her half brother have physical disorders, what would Lisbeth's twin sister have has her disorder?
b. Would she even have one?
c. How would this effect their relationship and the entire story as a whole?
3. Why did he keep talking about the amazon women?
a. I understand that it has to do with Mikael's eventual realization that this strong woman can be stable for him but it keeps talking about how they (amazon women) never settle down and that they only mated to keep kids coming.
b. Does this foreshadow a possible end before a beginning to this relationship for Mikael?
4. Erika Berger is stated as feeling unhappy. How can she find herself happy again if Mikael cannot be with her?
a. Does he continue his romance with Erika?
b. Do they finally decided to be together exclusively?
5. There is obvious tension between Mikael and Salander but at the end she realizes that he is just a friend. Mikael never realize analyzes his feelings for Salander, is it possible that he does care for her as more than just a friend?
a. And if not, if she truly is he opposite then would that make her twin sister Mikael's perfect match?
b. If Mikael and Salander's twin were together, what kind of pain could this cause Salander, if any?
6. What had become of SMP?
7. What happened with the whole story about the tornado where Salander thought the Man was attempting to kill his wife?
There are too many question in my head and these are the few that I could come up with off the top of my head..
The story, in my head, keeps going in so many different ways... I feel as if the entire story has literally just left me toeing the edge of a cliff...
I need to get to sleep BUT I hope to log back on and see some other people have been pushed to explore possible endings and roads that Steig may have also considered exploring with his characters.
Please comment if you have had some of the same thoughts I posted.
Posted by in Anna in Chicago , 28 February 2012
WOW! A lot of questions you want answers to, but the bottom line is we will never know....We can only speculate, everyone's mind thinks in different ways. I can answer to some of your questions, but it may differ from others. That is why I recommend you read your questions again, and figure it out for yourself. Read the books again, maybe that will help
Posted by Wen , 5 Mars 2012
The dreagon tattoo is not explained and it would have been at some time as all Lisbet's tattoos had a meaning. Again, her sister. I am sure this thread would have come up in later books. She could be one of the bodies found and not identified by the end of book 3. We do know that Camilla handled her mother's abuse very differently to Lisbet. She would go to her father after the abuse and cuddle up to him - she appears to have been a very "girly" girl. We have no physical description of her, but we do know that she did not endure the bullying that Lisbet experienced at school so physically she could have been stronger and larger - more like her half-brother. We do know that there had been altercations between Lisbet and Camilla and there was no love lost between them. Maybe Camilla found her father and spent time with him. We do not know and I do not think that Larsen had much sympathy for her character.
Posted by DB Marquis in Johannesburg , 28 Mars 2012
i wish i had never started to read these books i have come to love the people in them so much that i cant bring my self to read the rest of the third book i want to but i makes me sad to know that they are all coming to a end because there will never be a 4th because of the horrible greed of people in the world i know that they will never let stiegs life partner have the rights to finish the book people can be so corrupted by money it makes me sick why can someone hack into stiegs cpu and leak the book or what he has at least written or why wont mia just get a hold of a copy of what stieg has written finish the book and leak the book there has to be ways that we can read at least the 4th book this makes me so sad........Its like all the people in the book died..............
Posted by waSp in austin TX , 5 April 2012
Just finished watching all 3 Swedish films last week. I really like the American version of the Girl movie SOOO much better. One of my biggest complaints with the Swedish film is the hideous depiction of Lisbeth's dragon tattoo. In the books it is described over and over as, while large and extreme, beautiful and by more than one person. It is described as twisting around her body and having brilliant colors of green, red and blue. In the Swedish movies the tattoo appears as a devil ripping out of her back. I understand all movies are interpretations of their source material and that changes have to be made to speed things along and so on, but I didn't get most significant change.
Posted by Jea , 13 June 2012